DUST Search - [Request] Remove Hitscan mechanics

Buster Friently wrote:

Malkai Inos wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

BL4CKST4R wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

Except for laser weapons and rails, please remove hitscan type weapon modes. Please replace the non laser, non rail weapons with projectiles that have travel time and ballistics as appropriate.

Concerning Processing power, computational weight, etc, where necessary reduce the rate of fire, and increase the per shot damage.

Hitscan is a terrible crutch, and hardly seems necessary in 2013. We had Tribes in 1998 with 32 player support and mainly weapons with realistic ballistics.

Rail gun would have ballistics also, it uses magnetism to fire a projectile.

Yes, but the round flies very fast, making ballistics probably negligible for it. 2500 m/s I think, and while there's no reason this couldn't be modelled, it's unlikely to matter much considering the small map sizes.

Tbh, i can't see why it would matter with any current hitscan weapon within its respective range. It's safe to assume that most weapons currently in the game or announced would have projectile velocities in excess of 700m/s.

Given optimal ranges of often around or under 50m the travel time would be completely insignificant i.e indistinguishable from server lag, input lag and and human reaction speeds.

This makes me wonder if it's worth the development cost and added server stress. Not arguing that it's impossible to manage the overhead but both development and server resources could've been spent on other, more noticable areas.

Could be. I don't know what the travel rate of other weapons are supposed to be. I can say this though: it makes a big difference when it comes to the weapons that currently have ballistics - flaylock, MD, FG. These weapons are much harder at distance because as the travel time increases, so does the uncertainty about where the target may be once the round arrives.

Even a difference of a half or quarter second would go a long way IMHO.


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Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 968	Posted - 2013.08.01 23:44:00 - [1] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Except for laser weapons and rails, please remove hitscan type weapon modes. Please replace the non laser, non rail weapons with projectiles that have travel time and ballistics as appropriate. Concerning Processing power, computational weight, etc, where necessary reduce the rate of fire, and increase the per shot damage. Hitscan is a terrible crutch, and hardly seems necessary in 2013. We had Tribes in 1998 with 32 player support and mainly weapons with realistic ballistics. Rail gun would have ballistics also, it uses magnetism to fire a projectile. Yes, but the round flies very fast, making ballistics probably negligible for it. 2500 m/s I think, and while there's no reason this couldn't be modelled, it's unlikely to matter much considering the small map sizes. Tbh, i can't see why it would matter with any current hitscan weapon within its respective range. It's safe to assume that most weapons currently in the game or announced would have projectile velocities in excess of 700m/s. Given optimal ranges of often around or under 50m the travel time would be completely insignificant i.e indistinguishable from server lag, input lag and and human reaction speeds. This makes me wonder if it's worth the development cost and added server stress. Not arguing that it's impossible to manage the overhead but both development and server resources could've been spent on other, more noticable areas.
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 968	Posted - 2013.08.02 00:50:00 - [2] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: Buster Friently wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Except for laser weapons and rails, please remove hitscan type weapon modes. Please replace the non laser, non rail weapons with projectiles that have travel time and ballistics as appropriate. Concerning Processing power, computational weight, etc, where necessary reduce the rate of fire, and increase the per shot damage. Hitscan is a terrible crutch, and hardly seems necessary in 2013. We had Tribes in 1998 with 32 player support and mainly weapons with realistic ballistics. Rail gun would have ballistics also, it uses magnetism to fire a projectile. Yes, but the round flies very fast, making ballistics probably negligible for it. 2500 m/s I think, and while there's no reason this couldn't be modelled, it's unlikely to matter much considering the small map sizes. Tbh, i can't see why it would matter with any current hitscan weapon within its respective range. It's safe to assume that most weapons currently in the game or announced would have projectile velocities in excess of 700m/s. Given optimal ranges of often around or under 50m the travel time would be completely insignificant i.e indistinguishable from server lag, input lag and and human reaction speeds. This makes me wonder if it's worth the development cost and added server stress. Not arguing that it's impossible to manage the overhead but both development and server resources could've been spent on other, more noticable areas. Could be. I don't know what the travel rate of other weapons are supposed to be. I can say this though: it makes a big difference when it comes to the weapons that currently have ballistics - flaylock, MD, FG. These weapons are much harder at distance because as the travel time increases, so does the uncertainty about where the target may be once the round arrives. Even a difference of a half or quarter second would go a long way IMHO. The 700m/s are pulled off from google and supposedly close to what an ak 47 and similar manages (i'm uncreative ). I can only assume that projectile weapons follow the basic mass*velocity rule so speeds would be similar to/higher than what we have today to penetrate shields/armor unless we fire magnum caliber full auto weapons at each other. The HMG for example was around 5-6mm caliber iirc, less mass than the 7.62mm of an ak and not even close to a magnum so speeds should be pretty high just out of real world intuition. Blasters might be considerably slower but if i'd design a close range general purpose weapon (say, Gal AR) i'd make sure to give it enough speed so the user does not have to lead shots within its intended range. We could assert this to be the case and use it as an excuse to keep it hitscan. Using it outside of its range can already be balanced through falloff mechanics so that there's no unfixable risk of abuse either. While i agree that weapon ballistics are an interesting and valid way to allow for weapon options that are harder to handle but also potentionally more effective i'd argue that there is also value in more reliable, easy to use hitscan weapons for those who prefer a dependable solution that is as consistent as possible. Different players and play styles have varying preferences and allowing each a wide choice is a good thing in my opinion. With that said I can easily support the addition of new guns that have noticable travel times and ballistic arches as there's a distinct lack of those outside of niche and specialist options. I do not think however that current hitscan weapons require a change in that regard.